Display Priorities of Solid Fill in Revit Materials

Back in Revit 2012 Autodesk changed the way materials work - so that they had separate graphics and appearance properties.  This was the start of much confusion for many users - and still to this day it catches people out.  You know the drill:  duplicate a material;  change its appearance properties and suddenly a hundred other materials change too . . . .

Well, I am not going to address that issue directly.  Instead I want to look at a more subtle confusion that some users encounter:  Exactly how do the different material properties display in each 'Visual Style' - it will not always be what you might expect or consider to be logical

Material Properties

In order to analyse this issue we start with two very simple material definition examples, applied to two elements in a Revit project:

Material 1 - Demo Generic

• Light grey shading 
• Light Blue appearance (different colour to shading)
• no surface patterns
  

Material 2 - Demo Green

• Light green shading and appearance;  
• no surface patterns
  

Visual Styles

These materials display as expected in the various 'Visual Styles' in Revit - because we know that the graphic 'Shading' colour property matches the 'Appearance' colour property in material #2 but not in #1 

Material #1 on left,              Material #2 on right

Hidden Line Visual Style

Shaded Visual Style

Consistent Colours Visual Style

The colour displayed for material #1 (left) in Realistic and Ray Trace visual styles is different to shaded and consistent colours because the material properties do not match - this is to be expected.

Realistic Visual Style

Ray trace Visual Style

Material #1 on left,              Material #2 on right

Lighting

These views are lit with default sun and lighting settings (ie. light source over the right shoulder of the viewer)

 

Use Render Appearance

One thing that users often forget to address is consistency between the 'Graphics' and 'Appearance' colours.  If the colours are dramatically different, then materials look completely wrong, particularly in 'Shaded' views.

There is a quick and easy way to deal with this - it is the 'Use Render Appearance' checkbox to make sure the shaded colour matches the appearance colour.

 

This property can be used as a one-off operation - ie, tick the box to change the colour, then untick it.

Or you can just leave it ticked if you want the shading to update when the appearance property might change in the future.

• NB.  Make sure that the appearance colour is correct first - as there is no 'Undo' so you might lose a shading colour definition.

• Do not use this method if the shading colour is correct but appearance wrong
  

Surface Patterns in Materials

When you add surface patterns to materials is where things get more complicated . . .

We will make two more materials, based on the light green shaded material - these will use the same light green 'Appearance' (unchanged).

Material 3 - Demo Green Line Hatching

• Light green shading 
• Light green appearance;  
• Line Cross-Hatching foreground surface pattern

Material 4 - Demo Green Solid Hatching

• Light green shading 
• Light green appearance;  
• Line Solid Fill foreground surface pattern

Visual Styles

Hidden Line

• Cross-hatch pattern is displayed as you might expect
• Solid fill displays with solid colour - but without any lighting effects

Material #3 on left,              Material #4 on right

Hidden Line Visual Style

Shaded

• Cross-hatch pattern is displayed on top of the shading colour
  
• Solid fill displays replaces the shading colour - it is completely obscured -  this can be confusing if the user has not studied the material properties carefully
  

Shaded Visual Style

Consistent Colours Visual Style

Realistic (and Ray Trace)

• Cross-hatch pattern are not displayed at all - unless a hatching pattern is defined within the material appearance (not a simple thing to achieve)
  
• Appearance Colour replaces the Solid fill colour -  this is the reverse of what happens in a Shaded visual style - so it can be confusing
  

Realistic Visual Style

Background Hatching

Just for the record, here is what happens with background hatching - it follows the same rules as Foreground hatching.  [NB. This capability was added in Revit v2019]

Material 5 - Demo Green Line Background Hatching

• Light green shading 
• Light green appearance;  
• No foreground hatching surface pattern
• Line Cross-Hatching background surface pattern

Material 6 - Demo Green Line Foreground & Solid Background Hatching

• Light green shading 
• Light green appearance;  
• Line Cross-Hatching foreground hatching surface pattern
• Solid Fill background surface pattern

Visual Styles Materials 5 & 6

Material #5 on left,              Material #6 on right

Hidden Line

Shaded

Consistent Colours

Realistic

Conclusion

Solid Fill surface patterns are the one part of this Visual Style issue that cause display inconsistencies.

You may have good reasons for using Solid Fill surface patterns as part of a material definition - in which case go for it.  Otherwise, they are to be used with caution in normal Revit use.

Another approach to avoid the inconsistencies would be to make sure the appearance, shading and solid fill colours all match up.

Don't forget to check how many materials are sharing the Appearance asset before you change it - it is the number above the hand on the Appearance tab.

Family Types Dialog Column Widths in Revit

Does anyone find trying to control the column width in the Family Types dialog box annoying?

The "Lock" column in particular, has been driving me mad for the last 16 years!

About 7 or 8 years ago (?), Autodesk made a partial improvement to that dialog box: 

• Revit remembers the size of the dialog box when you open or close the dialog - previous to that it always reset to a small default size & layout.  
• However, it still behaves in an unpredictable way, which is intensely irritating.

I just discovered a trick that helps to get around the problem - so I spent a while analysing exactly what is going on:

Family Types Dialog Box Size Behaviour

• When you close the Family Types dialog, and subsequently reopen it, Revit remembers the overall size and location of the dialog box.

 

• This also happens between sessions:  When you close Revit, the next time you start Revit, it remembers the size and location of the dialog box.

Family Types Dialog Column Widths Behaviour

If you adjust the column widths in the dialog box:

• When you close the Family Types dialog, and subsequently reopen it, Revit remembers the widths of the columns in the dialog box (even if you are editing a different family).

• Not so between sessions:  When you close Revit, the next time you start Revit, it RESETS the widths of the columns in the dialog box to defaults below (albeit within saved overall width).

Default Column Widths:

• Parameter = 26%
• Value = 22%
• Formula = 40%
• Lock = 12%
  

Adjusting Column Widths

If you adjust the column widths, it follows strange and annoying rules:

• Adjust between Parameter/Value:  It changes Parameter and Lock Column widths
• This is not helpful as the lock column is wasted space!
  

• Adjust between Value/Formula:  It changes Value and Lock Column widths
• Even less helpful as the Lock column gets enormous
  

• Adjust between Formula/Lock:  It changes Formula and Lock Column widths
  

When adjusting Formula/Lock columns, be careful:

• If the right-hand "Lock" column vertical line disappears, it means the Lock column no longer fits in the overall width - this will cause much irritation (see below)
  

• This makes a horizontal scroll bar appear at the base of the dialog box - yuk!

• If you subsequently put the cursor anywhere in the "Value" column, as soon as you type a value and press enter, your dialog box may do a "crazy leprechaun dance"*
• The focus moves into the Formula Column
• In its infinite wisdom (/stupidity), Revit wants to display the column to the right in full - so it moves to show the whole of the Lock Column
• You will probably no longer be able to see the Parameter name and/or Value
  

[*NB. this is what the first iteration of the ribbon menus in Revit 2010 was referred to as doing]

NB. This does not always happen - I think it depends on the overall dialog box width and the Lock Column width

Clever Trick

I only discovered this a couple of days ago:

• Adjust the Formula/Lock column widths as close as you can to desired

• Select the right-hand vertical line of the Lock column, drag it to the left until the cursor aligns with check-box
  
• Nothing appears to happen
• However, in its mind, Revit is actually making the column width smaller (it just doesn't show the change)
  

• Adjust the Formula/Lock column widths again - to the right
• it lets you get the Lock column width much smaller (without losing the right-hand line)
  

• You can make the Lock column tiny - check-boxes will shrink

Once you have made the Lock column very small - it remains proportionally small when you increase the dialog box size - which is really useful.

Workaround to Avoid the Problem

If you always follow these rules, you are less likely to have a problem:

1.  Adjust your dialog box size to exactly what you will need for the entire Revit session - so if you are working with formulas a lot, then allow for a large width

2.  Adjust the column widths in this order:

• Parameter/Value  <
  

• Value/Formula  <

• Formula/Lock (keep the right-hand line visible) - move to the right  >

• Right-hand side of Lock column - move it to the left  <

• Formula/Lock again - move to the right  >

3.  Make sure you never have the horizontal scroll bar visible 

• If you ever adjust the Parameter or Value column widths, check the right-hand side of the lock column title - make sure it is visible (and no scroll bar).
  

Conclusion

If anyone tells me that they have known about this for years, I'd like to know why they never informed me before!

If you would like Autodesk to fix this problem, please go to Revit Ideas and vote for the wishlist item that Dave Plumb recently posted.

Revit Family Error Automatically Resolved

Some of you may not be aware but Autodesk sneaked in a new "Feature/Enhancement" in about version 2018 (I think?) - I do not remember any discussion or announcement about this in the testing/release process:

Warning:  "Family Error Automatically Resolved"

When you try to place or modify a component using parameter values that break the family (eg. cause impossible geometry), Revit will now try to "Fix" the family.

In reality, what is most likely going to happen is that you (the BIM or Content Manager) will be in a "Fix" or "Fixed Up" . . . . .

So, what is going on here?  

 When Revit tries to "Fix" the family, it seems that :

• Revit makes the requested change to the values
• Gives a warning to the user
• As we know, most users ignore the warning and keep going
• User clicks on OK or presses Enter
  

• Revit omits the elements that it cannot create
• Nested components are particularly prone to this
  
• This results in a component that is missing some (sub)elements

 

• The end user may not know what has happened
• They may not knotice that something is mssing
• They may not care!
  
• If the user makes further changes to the values that still break the family, Revit gives another warning - this one requires no user intervention.
  

• If the user changes the values to something that no longer breaks the family, it appears to reinstate the elements that it could not create.  
• When I first encountered this, I was sure that once it happened, Revit would never reinstate the missing elements - but on re-testing this it appears to work ok.

 

Warning

• It seems that when Revit "Fixes" a family for you, it does NOT retain a warning in the list
• I think that is a serious failing with this feature, as the BIM Manager has no easy way to find or track the problem

Old Revit Versions

Prior to this "enhancement", Revit would just give a message saying that it could not create the family:

This meant that the user had to either choose values that did not break the family, or else get the Content Creator to fix the family so it did not happen.

 

Opinions

What do you think of this "Enhancement"?

• As a BIM, Model or Content Manager I don't think I like it much because it means I often don't get told about the error - so it goes uncorrected.
• It is not easy to find later on
  

• As a Revit User, you might think it is great as you can get on with my work and not be interrupted by having to seek help from the Content Creator
• It may or may not come back to bite you - chances are that it will become someone else's problem.  
• If it goes unnoticed for a while the ramifications of the problem could become more significant.