Stepped Handrail on Stepped Stairs in Revit

A couple of years back I posted on how to create a stair with stepped sides. 

 

I always intended to follow it up with what happens to the handrail, and how to solve it?  Well, it is never too late.
 

Just in case you are wondering how to create the stepped side to the stair run in sketch mode - here is a trick for creating a DIY array in Revit.

When you create a stepped boundary for a stair run, the handrail also becomes stepped, but it is pretty clunky.

Baluster Placement

The first thing to notice is the hideous baluster placement - it is placing one at each change of direction, and one (or more) in the middle of each segment.

To tidy it up:

• we will probably have to create a new railing type (to avoid messing up the straight railing on the other side of the stair
• then edit the railing type properties; and the baluster placement
• Untick the checkbox for 'Use baluster per tread on stairs'

•  Balusters will only be placed at ends of each segment

Alternatively you could try the opposite: keep the Baluster per tread, but remove the start and end balusters - but then you lose control of the baluster locations in the segments running parallel to treads (not centred).

Top Rail Properties

You may not like the clunky Art Deco look of the vertical "Gooseneck" handrail segments, so the first step is to tab-select just the top rail (not the whole handrail) - then look at its Type properties

• Change the Transitions from 'Gooseneck' to 'Simple' (or None)
• Revit will give a not very helpful "not continuous rail" warning:

• Whichever you choose (Simple or None), you get 'None', as Revit has a headache and thinks it is all too difficult, so it simply can't be bothered to join the segments

Edit Railing Segments

The next thing to try is editing the whole railing path:

• Select the handrail
• Edit the path
  

• Select the first path segment at the base of the stair
• Check its properties, displayed on the Option Bar
  

• Change the Slope from 'By Host' to 'Sloped'

• Finish the Sketch

• Nothing appears to happen to the railing slope!  We will solve that later.

• Edit the path again

• Select the next segment that should be sloping (3rd from end)
• Change its Slope to 'Sloped'

 

This is getting tedious, so let us try a couple of shortcut:

• Instead of finishing the sketch to see how it looks, you could try the cool new Railing "Preview" feature in the ribbon menu (in a 3D view)

 

• Tick the Preview checkbox
  

• Aaaargh - it does not work when you adjust railing segment properties! It does not show the adjusted slope property.  You still have to Finish the sketch to see the effect

•  Edit the path again

• Select several segments to change their Slope property

• Aaargh - the properties are not shown on the Option Bar when you select multiple segments!
  

• Change the Slope properties for every alternate segment - one by one!

• Finish the Path sketch
  

Something is wrong with the overall height of the railing when compared to the straight railing on the other side of the stair.  

• This can be checked in an elevation view
  

Height Correction

To solve this, one way is to change the Height Correction property of each segment:

• Edit the railing path again
• Select the first segment
• Change its Height Correction property to Custom; with a value to match the riser height

• Finish the Path sketch

• The railing height is now correct (more or less)

• The lowest segment is now sloping

• Check it in elevation

 

Now who has a headache?  Not just Revit!

This is a crazy amount of work to do in order to get this sort of correct.

Of course, you could avoid all this by just putting in a straight diagonal railing, but the point of this blog is to demonstrate the problems with stairs and railings - and to show workarounds (however nasty they may be).   There may also be situations where the diagonal railing is not appropriate - perhaps where the stepped sides are much larger steps.

 

 

 

 

Travel Path Update in Revit 2020.2

Hooray - with the release of 2020.2, we finally have something useable in the Revit 2020 Path of Travel feature!

The initial release in Revit 2020 Path of Travel and Follow Up and the improvements in 2020.1 actually gave us a feature that was unusable in almost every situation.

It still has a number of limitations but at last we can make use of it to some degree.  What makes the big difference is the ability to add "Waypoints" anywhere along the path of travel.

You may remember (from my earlier descriptions) that when you place a 'Path of Treavel' by clicking the start and end points, Revit calculates the path for you - and you had little control over that, apart from choosing which elements form obstructions (or not).  Hence, in the standard Autodesk sample file, the path calculation was not able to determine that a sofa at a lower level should still be an obstruction:

Path or travel in v2020

In 2020.2, the calculation seems to have been slightly rationalised to give a more sensible path through the corridor to the north, but it still goes over the sofa in the split-level living area.

Path of Travel in 2020.2

Add Waypoints

We now have the ability to add (or remove) 'Waypoints' - this allows us to nudge the path to a more sensible course around the sofa.

If you need to make your path of travel orthogonal (as required in some jurisdictions), it can be done by adding enough waypoints - rather laborious but at least it works.

This is a very welcome addition to this feature.  However, it is still taking longer than the Daleks to learn how to manage stairs and changes of level in the building.
There is still no way to control the minimum width of a gap between obstacles (about 430mm or 17")

Reveal Obstacles in Path of Travel - Revit 2020.1

Revit 2020.1 Enhancement

If you place a 'Path of Travel' using the new (in Revit 2020) feature, you may encounter a situation like that shown below, where the path appears to go through an object that should be an obstruction - such as the path through sofa example below:

 

In addition to other Revit 2020.1 enhancements to the Path of Travel feature  - Move Start/End Points, we have a new tool that may help you out:

Reveal Obstacles in Path of Travel -

This is useful for figuring out why your path of travel is not behaving as expected. 

• On the Analyze toolbar, click on 'Reveal Obstacles'

• This temporarily changes the view display to show in orange all categories that represent obstacles to the path.

In the example below (Autodesk sample file), some items are not shown orange

 

• The doors are not obstacles because that category is excluded
• Some furniture is not shown in orange (obstacle) because they are below the cut plane for calculation.  The reason is that the model is split level, and the living area is 500mm lower than the rest of the house - refer to Analysis Zone follow up for more detail on Split Levels and calculation heights.
• In the case of the large sofa family, one part of the component shows orange - this is the high back.  This demonstrates that Revit actually analyses the geometry of elements, not just a bounding box for each component - which is a good thing.

As the sofa is much lower than the main floor level, only the back projects up into the analysis zone.

• If the sofa is raised by 200mm (8"), then the sides of the sofa also project into the zone - they become obstacles, and hence turn orange (it may not be immediate - see glitches listed below).

However, the path itself does not change - you have to select it and click on 'Update Path' for that to happen;  then the path will go around the sides of the sofa.

Obstacle Settings

 

If you go the the Route Analysis Settings, you can add or remove obstacles by category - for example add Furniture and Casework categories to the list that are not obstacles

Initially nothing happens, but when you update the path it will no longer avoid those categories.  These will no longer be highlighted in orange by the 'Reveal Obstacles setting

Furniture no longer an obstacle

Casework category no longer an obstacle - path not yet updated

NB. There is some unexpected behaviour that can occur with the 'Reveal Obstacles' feature:

• If you already have 'Reveal Obstacles' mode on when you go into the 'Route Analysis' settings, then change the categories - Reveal Obstacles does not update the categories displayed orange/grey (you need to turn it off then on again for a refresh).
• If Reveal Obstacles mode is on, and you try to select an element:
• Initially it will highlight all of the obstacles as one item;  select it and you get Analysis results Properties (see below for more details)
• if you tab select, it highlights a component, but still considers it part of the analysis result;  Select it and you get Analysis Result listed but without any properties;
• Tab again and it finally selects just the element - you can then change its properties;  However, the Reveal Obstacles highlighting is not updated even when it should be - eg. if the sofa height is changed to 500mm so that the whole sofa becomes an obstacle, the sofa does not turn orange (when it should).

• If you select the whole analysis result, you get shown properties for the Analysis Result.

• It is not immediately clear what these properties are for.
• If you click on the 'Edit..' button (Results Visibility), as you would be tempted to do, you get some more mysterious properties

•  Make the dialog box a fraction wider, and one of the headings shows in full:  'Analysis Display Style' - it has a hidden button to the right of <By View>

• Click on the hidden button to reveal the Display Style dialog

• You can play around with the text and arrowhead settings

 

• And go to the Legend Tab
• Click on 'Show Legend'
• The end result means not much to me, but I'm sure it has a purpose

Arrowheads and legend displayed

•  You can move the legend on the view, if that is what you need

I am guessing that these analysis display settings are for some other kind of analysis, but have been enabled here too?

• I am not going down that rabbit hole today!

 

Conclusion

Sadly, useful as this new feature is, it does not address fundamental shortcomings - such as what you need to do when Revit fails to generate (or update) a path at all.

We need more help to be able to deal with that situation, as the Warning dialog box is not at all helpful!

Travel Path Update in Revit 2020.1

Following on from my posts about Revit 2020 on Path of Travel and Follow Up :

With the release of Revit 2020.1, we have been given four minor improvements to the new (2020) 'Path of Travel' feature in Revit.  Welcome as they are, these improvements do not address any of the fundamental shortcomings of the tool, which seems like a missed opportunity:

1. Start and End Points of travel paths can be dragged.
2. Reveal Obstacles toggle.
3. To and From Room properties have been enabled (these were previously just blank instance properties in 2020).
4. Two new Dynamo nodes for Travel Paths (presumably new API capabilities allow this?)

Start and End Points

If you select an existing 'Path of Travel' element (which behaves like a polyline detail line) it now displays a blue grip-handle dot at each end.

• Select the grip-handle and drag it to a new location - while doing so, Revit displays a moving straight line directly between the cursor and the other end of the path.

• Once you let go the grip-handle in its new location, Revit recalculates the path of travel

• Associated properties, schedules and tags will also be updated.

This is a very welcome little change to behaviour - if you tried this with the original vesion (2020), it just moved the whole path of travel.  However, this is only a small usability enhancement.

The fundamental issues it does not deal with include:

• Still no ability to choose, change or control where the actual path goes (apart from adding/removing obstacles).  In order to do this, we would need to be able to somehow nominate additional points along the path, which it must go through.
  [Edit. * NB. Revit 2020.2 improves on this]
• No ability to make the path orthogonal (in Australia I have never needed that, but comments on my last blog post indicated a requirement for this in North America)
  [Edit. * NB. Revit 2020.2 improves on this]
• No ability to deal with sloping floors, level changes (split level), stairs.
• No ability to prevent the path going through a very narrow opening (430mm or 1' 5") - more on this in another blog post.

NB. Given that the default selection colour in Revit is dark blue, and the grip-handles are mid/dark blue, it is pretty hard to even notice this new feature.  I would recommend changing your options for selection (and pre-selection) colours to something other than blue. 

Incidentally, which *!@*&#$ at Autodesk thought it was a good idea to make the selection and pre-selection colours the same (both dark blue)!

Reveal Obstacles toggle

This is a useful new tool for figuring out why your path of travel is not behaving as expected.  Again, this does not address fundamental shortcomings - such as:

• What do you need to do when Revit fails to generate (or update) a path at all.

This new feature has a few quirks in behaviour - as detailed in another blog post.


[Edit. Revit 2020.2 further improves on 2020.1]