BILT Speaker

BILT Speaker
RevitCat - Revit Consultant

Sunday 6 April 2014

Adaptive Component Origins in Revit

Have you ever wondered how Revit manages the "Origin" (X,Y,Z = 0,0,0) of an adaptive component?
It is somewhat different from the way it handles origins and insertion points of traditional Revit families.  So here is an analysis of the differences between the two.

Traditional Family Insertion Points

A traditional Revit family typically has three reference planes that intersect at the origin point - representing the X, Y and Z axes.  To start with, the origin is the same as the insertion point when the component is placed in a model.  For this discussion we will only think about the X and Y axes in plan because the vertical insertion point (in Z axis) is locked to the level (in the family) and does not change (unless you use the Offset property - see below).
At some point those X and Y reference planes might be moved within the family.  This may or may not affect the insertion point, depending on the reference plane properties:
  • If the reference planes are moved, and they are set to "Defines Origin" then the insertion point will move to the intersection of the two reference planes
  • Alternatively, one or two other reference planes might be set to "Defines Origin" - if they are in the X or Y axis, they will take over the origin property from the Centre reference planes (and the centre reference planes will have that property unchecked);  if the other reference plans are not orthogonal then Revit will ignore that setting, and use the centre reference planes or the original origin point.
  • If no reference planes in the family are set to "Defines Origin" then the insertion point will remain at the original X=0, Y=0 origin
  • If only one of the reference planes is set to "Defines Origin" then the insertion point will be at the intersection of the "Defines Origin" reference plane and the original perpendicular axis.
  • If the insertion point of a family is changed and then reloaded into a project  where some have previously been placed, it will overwrite the family definition in the project and will move the geometry in any placed components of that family (by the same amount that the insertion point moved).
For this reason it is good practise to make sure the two reference planes that define the insertion point are not moved from the origin once you have decided where it needs to be (keep them pinned).  Geometry should be moved relative to the origin if need be.

Hot Tip:  If you lose track of the true origin, just create an Autocad file with a cross intersecting at X=0, Y=0.  Save the dwg and import it in to your family at "Origin to Origin"; trace over the cross with reference planes or lines; delete the dwg; purge the dwg (since you can't link dwgs into a family, you need to import, then purge).

Most traditional unhosted Revit families have an "Offset" system parameter that is automatically created when you load the family into a project (this contols the Z offset from the placement level or workplane).  Recently we found some old plumbing families (baths) that did not have the Offset parameter - we believe that this is because they were created from very old family templates that pre-date the addition of this offset capability, from the dim distant Revit past.  Hosted and face-based families usually have an "Elevation" system parameter (rather than Offset), which works like Offset but only in the project vertical axis, whereas the Offset parameter works in the local z axis of the family, which may not be vertical in the project.

Adaptive Family Insertion Points

Adaptive components behave in a different way.:
  • Although they have a true origin with two reference planes intersecting there, the insertion point can be overridden by adaptive points.
  • If there is no adaptive point in the family then it behaves almost like a traditional family, except that the "Defines Origin" parameters appear to make no difference - the origin and insertion point remains at 0,0 regardless of whether any reference planes have that property checked
  • If there is an adaptive Placement Point in the family, then Revit uses that as the insertion point of the family;  however it still remembers the true origin
  • If the only adaptive points in the family are Shape Handle points, then Revit uses the traditional origin as the insertion point (not the adaptive point)
  • If a placement adaptive point is deleted (in the family) or changed to a shape handle point, Revit does not move the geometry when the family is reloaded into a project.  This is because Revit knows and remembers where the origin is even though it uses adaptive placement points for insertion - this is logical but can get confusing.
If a placement adaptive point is moved (in the family) then reloaded into a project it might move geometry of previously placed components - it depends if the geometry is hosted on the adaptive point or not.   In this example the hexagon is hosted on the adaptive point;  the circles are just placed on the level workplane, close to the origin point.
Geometry in the family
Geometry in the model
  • Any geometry hosted on the adaptive point remains where it was in the model when the family is reloaded; 
  • Any geometry placed in the  family but not hosted on an adaptive point will move relative to the 0,0 origin point - so if the adaptive point is moved/flexed in the family it will end up a different distance from the point in the family;  when reloaded, the unhosted geometry will move in the project so that it retains that distance, while the hosted geometry remains put at the insertion point
  • Once you are in the project environment, and you move the adaptive point, something different again happens:  all the geometry in the family moves together! (this can be hellishly confusing).
Adaptive components do not have an Offset system parameter.  Instead they have an "Elevation" parameter, which does not appear to do anything - neither unhosted elements nor elements hosted on adaptive points will move when this Elevation value is altered.

Adaptive Component Reference Planes

Most adaptive component demos that I have seen show the placement of adaptive points in random locations in the family.  Why?  Probably just because you can.
I am more careful - I always put adaptive point #1 at the origin (intersection of the two reference planes that exist in the family template).  I do it for a reason, even though it takes a few extra steps - I have to go to a plan view because points won't snap to ref plane intersections in 3D.  If there is a second adaptive point I will snap it to the X axis for the same reason:  . . . .
  • Let us assume that you place an adaptive point in a random location;
  • Make it adaptive
  • Then place some geometry associated with the point (set the work plane to its horizontal plane first)
  •  You could place a dimension just to check how far it is from the origin
  • Load the adaptive family into a project and place one (it uses the adaptive point for insertion)
  • Try placing a dimension to roughly the same distance from the adaptive point as it was in the family - the hidden reference plane in the family will highlight and allow you to snap to it
  •  Once you place the dimension, the highlighted reference plane disappears
  • You could do the same with the other axis reference plane
  • Revit will attempt to snap to those reference planes and their intersections during many other commands that involve snapping - even to remote objects.
Its not very helpful is it?  In fact it is downright annoying when you have lots of adaptive components placed.
  • Imagine what happens when you have two adaptive points placed in the family at random, with some geometry between them?  

  • The hidden reference planes are now at crazy angles in the project and cause all kinds of random snapping locations

Hot Tip:  In v2013 the developers gave us a solution to this issue by enabling the  properties of those reference planes to be set to "Not a Reference" [that did not work in v2012, I think]
Good Practise: 
  1. Chances are that you will forget to change this setting some time, so it is a good idea to get into the habit of putting adaptive point #1 at the true origin, and point #2 on the X axis so that these reference planes will be orthogonal to the geometry.
  2. Whenever you flex the family by moving the adaptive points, remember to put them back to where they were, so that you don't get strange behaviour where unhosted elements in the family might move in the model when you reload the family into the project.

For more differences between traditional and adaptive families refer to Rival Revit Environments

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